Rebirth of the swan

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1987: Guesch Patti is a European success thanks to the single Étienne. Since then, five albums have been released in parallel to a career as an experienced contemporary dancer and as an incipient actress. We met with her at the Ménagerie de Verre in Paris to talk about her latest album "Dernieres Nouvelles", the accompanying video film and about her dance performance "She Smiles Through Tears" performed from April the 23 to April 28 at the Théâtre des Abbesses in Paris.

Interview by J.-P.P.

How are things with your video film? It has been edited, finished, and it will be released as a DVD. It is a 52 minutes video film that Elodie Lachaud made based on the songs from the last album. You could call it a performance fiction, comparable with cinema of art and test. Between the moments of music, I play the role of a ruined woman with an intruder who makes me a kind of false interview... This film, made with Trouville, took us three days and three nights working completely impromptu, recording it on digital video and one a small end in the dance performance sees some.

Is the film solidified, the dance performance will evolve? The album and the film are finished, the dance performance on the other hand will always evolve. It has changed since the first performance and it will evolve further because we will leave in round. As it is a choreographic and theatrical performance, I will try to program it in alternation with a concert...

Did you film this performance? No, not yet, but we will do it over two evenings to have two different feelings... You know, it is very particular to film a dance performance: either one works for the image, or the image places oneself at the disposal of the body. It should not be forgotten that you are locked up within three walls, the fourth angle being the onlooker. It will be a testimonial film, a visual memory.

What were the differences between the first three performances? Yesterday we had the third evening open to the public, but before that we had a dress rehearsal and a pre-showing. It's funny that none of the five evenings were the same. Some nights were better than others because there is a progression to carry out in the performance and it is not obvious. It is necessary to be vigilant not to over emphasize the dress rehearsal, thus it was a true dress rehearsal, the pre-showing was an extreme case of imperfection, by chance, the premiere was just right. The second performance was not bad, the third was the most interesting. It is all the more difficult because it is a performance we did not "break in": you are thrown onto Paris, which is very dangerous with the public in Paris being less forgiving than elsewhere.

The performance is divided into five parts. The five choreographers are: Odile Duboc, Daniel Larrieu, Dominique Mercy, Pascale Houbin and Odile Azagury, they all chose the music to the theme of a couple going through a separation, a theme that I had selected for them. I thought of this theme well before the album, when Daniel Larrieu had proposed one evening intimist with TCD (Ed: a Paris avant-garde theatre) to me. It is there that I created what is now one of the five solos of the performance. Then, when Odile Duboc chose Vertiges, the credits of my album, it was by chance. I gave him my last album as I did with all my friends, and he found this title there. As for Pascale Houbin, that I did not know, I also gave him the album and it is it which decided métisser all the lyrics of the album on a music of a group called "Merz", I find that incredible, and I proposed it to him. It is necessary to add, that in addition to the five parts, there are two guests: Mimi Bastille who sings it and Franck Apertet who dances with me...

Mimi Bastille also wrote a song for you on Dernieres Nouvelles. Yes, Scopitone. She had already written "Backstage d'Une Star" for my first album.

How many dance performances did you create? Many, but I never counted them. But I believe that this is the first under the name of Guesch Patti. I began dancing aged 9 (Ed: 1955) with the role of "Le Petit Rat" at the Paris Opera, then I worked with Roland Petit (Ed: 1961), then I did contemporary dance (Ed: 1970).

What is the difference between the dancing and the singing? As a singer I am the author and sometimes composer. As a dancer I am a interpreter, with some exceptions because with some groups I also choreographed.

You are Patricia, daughter of Jean Porasse who worked for a record company in the Sixties... My father, who liked popular chansons, was an artistic director with the Voice of his Master-Pathé-Marconi. He dealt with Gilbert Bécaud. Then, he was impresario for many stars, for example Eric Charden, Jean- Jacques Debout and Nino Ferrer who was my favorite. My father had left the Nancy Holloway orchestra of which he also took care... When I made my first record, Étienne, I wanted to be less variety...

But you arrived on the scene 20 years earlier as one half of the duo "Yves and Patricia"... (laughs) I shouldn't have done that, my father tricked me into making it... The only one who mentioned this before was a journalist of Canal Plus at the time of Étienne... He had one of the discs of Yves and Patricia.

You did not agree with the idea of a duo... Ah no, not at all! I was 16 or 17 years old (Ed: in fact 19) and I didn't much like it. The boy who sang with me, Yves Gilbert, later became the official composer of Serge Lama. We made just two super-45 records with Philips which I do not even have. I remember that there was a nice song by Charles Level qui pariait de bleu...

Who did the music? Yves Gilbert. There was also a cover of an traditional English or cockney song that went (she sings) Around the corner, oh oh, beneath the berry tree, pom pom pom pom.... We lacked an extra day to finish the fourth song for the super-45.

There was also the Bon Marché advert you did for "Mademoiselle Age Tendre"... I don't remember doing that. (Ed: I show her the advert in question...) Oh that, I was humorously fashionable... I hardly remember the dress because I had to return it after the photograph but the suede shoes were mine. They cost a fortune, like 1000 FF at the time, and I had to save months to pay for them! Even my mother - who keeps everything - doesn't have this advert.

After the duo, you again take up dancing... There are parts in my life - in particular when I wanted to stop dancing - of which I do not want to speak any more...

In the Seventies, you dance a lot for television, in particular with Nana Mouskouri, and with Silvie Vartan... I adored this woman. I danced for her at the time of her show at the Palais des Congrès for which the choreographies were extraordinary. She had hired a choreographer by the name of Claude Thompson and I swear to you that you fought to work with a choreographer like him. It should be said that variety at that time was more powerful than it is now. Claude Thompson was a little like Lester Wilson, he was Michael Jackson's choreographer and died a few years ago.

How did you migrate from variety to contemporary dance? Very easily, because variety dancing was of a very high level. I would like to defend the television choreographers of that time, people like Arthur Plasshaert, Barry Collins... Television pressure caused a renewal every week, if not twice weekly... It was an incredible challenge. They did not have any other outlet, because contrary to the United States, there were no musicals in France. Me, I have danced for them at Carpentier and I was very proud, without discounting that we earned a good living. With me, there was Domenica Bagouet, who also danced for Nana Mouskouri, and who unfortunately is not with us anymore. She was one of the biggest choreographers that we had in France...

What good memories do you have of variety choreographies? I remember a song from Guy Marchand for whom Arthur Plasshaert had made a formidable choreography... It should be said that Arthur was very cunning, he took dancers of contemporary dance and crossed his groups. This is no longer the case today. It should be said that there was, during a few lean years, where there were no more dancers with television. It has returned a bit, but not under the same conditions: contemporary dance and variety dancing are now separated by a mile.

You suffer from this separation? No, first because in dance, one is not less pedantic that in showbiz. The proof is that the five choreographers who have just worked for me did not snob me.

The contemporary dancers must despise variety dancers? Nonsense, absolute nonsense. All dancers, including more sophisticated ones are impassioned lovers of musicals.

Do you think that they respect Redha with his choreography of Romeo and Juliette?... Perhaps not... I grant to you that there are different religions. It should be said that after West Side Story, they did not create large scale productions, even less so in France. Starmania is a work that, for my part, I find very well written, for the songs, not for its staging.

You have seen all the stagings, both of Michel Berger, the last of Lewis Furey... Yes, practically... In the case of Lewis Furey, I find that there is a weakness... Even after having heard the explanations. The staging that I still prefer is the second, the one with Maurane, which was the simplest, and which respected the songs. To date, it is the only musical in France that deserves the name musical. I think that they should do better. At the moment, I only see operettas with a twist, not musicals...

Are you up for it? If I wanted to turn this word around, I would more likely be inspired by someone like Lars van Trier.

Let us return to your history: in 1982, we find you in a trio of singers, "Da Capo"... With Lydie Callier and another girl. We made only one single for Virgin but I adored it. They said that it was too marginal and too sophisticated. I was very upset (laughs). As a follow up to that myself and Lydie decided to make a very sexy cabaret song... That song was Étienne, the revenge of the marginal or sophisticated girls...

When, in the summer of 1987, Étienne is released by EMI, you are surrounded by the group Encore. They will remain with you for the first album, Labyrinthe (1988), and the second, Nomades (1990). Why did you separate? I thought that the musicians were like dancers. That it was enough to put them together in a studio to work in complete freedom and to nourish discussions, and that something would be born from that. That was not the case. However, I must say that the first album was not too bad. On the other hand, the second is a little wobbly, only half of it is interesting. I believe that it was done too quickly, we did not have enough time to reflect.

You had an international career with the single Étienne that entered the charts in Germany on November 2, 1987 (26 weeks), and this until place # 9. On May 2, 1988, Let Be Must The Queen entered the German chart (15 weeks) and finished # 21... In the Netherlands, only Étienne charted on December 26, 1988 (4 weeks) until # 22... You know more than me... (laughs). It's true that I went everywhere in Europe, except Spain where I never charted...

Don't you miss travelling through Europe? If I need to be able to present myself on stage as I want, to take that around the world is currently an unheard-of luxury. If I cannot, I prefer to remain at home. However I know that touring with my my dance performance is currently less expensive than my concerts with musicians...

Is the language of dance more universal than the French song? I've had a problem with that way of thinking since the beginning, because I went to sing in Germany, in Italy, in the United States, in England, always in French... And that never posed any problems. If the multinationals - who are not French - had not decided to limit the French speaking singers to France, you could export yourself.

EMI Germany nevertheless did a lot for you. For the first album, they even released an extra single. After Étienne, Let Be Must The Queen, and before Bon Anniversaire, they released Cul Cul Clan... Yes, but that release was a nasty trick of a German guy who wanted to increase and accelerate his sales turnover. They picked a photograph which did not have anything to see, and it went out without us having any say in it, and without a video clip obviously. That has screwed up the brothel, because, finally, France did not want to release Cul Cul Clan on single, as it was envisaged.

The second album, Nomades produced only two singles Comment Dire, and Nomades. None of these singles charted abroad. However, I always preferred the reception I got abroad, they do not seem to have a problem with me being a multi disciplined artist. When I went to Germany for the promotion of film Elles, I found them more respectful and more generous. They know Étienne but they are more curious about the rest. Is it because I am foreign? Do the Germans in Germany have the same opportunities?

The third album, Gobe, released in 1992, with Wake Up and Mélomane as singles, but your European career is interrupted... There, I went to look elsewhere and I was misled. Initially because I was to make an English album with several producers, in the end my record company obliged me to leave that one. I had planned to record it after the Festival of Dance in Montpellier in which I was to take part. Finally, I did it with Bob a former drummer with Prince and it was recorded before Montpellier. It is only starting from the fourth album, Blonde (1995), that that starts with *recadrer*...

Why release a CDM with four remixed songs, including three tracks of Blonde plus the clip of this title in the same year as Dernieres Nouvelles... That was an idea of the record company for the international market, in Belgium, in Germany... So that they wouldn't forget me there. Moreover, it was an occasion to release these unpublished Étienne remixes plus two tracks of the Blonde album: "La Marquise" and "Blonde" co-written by Étienne Daho (Ed: the last track Amnésie is not a remix, as an extra track it contains "Un Peu... Beaucoup" co-written by Françoise Hardy). I conceive that to release this record at the same time as the last album can appear confusing. I would like to fold me with operations, with rules - it has to be simpler to live like that -, but I do not know.

Dernieres Nouvelles contains music by your partner, Christophe Rosé, and lyrics which you have co-written with Jean Fauque. Is this new in your career? I have admired his work with Bashung for a long time. It was my engineer-producer, Michel Olivier, who is a close friend of him, who presented it to me... That was very simple.

Do you not regret not working with the people you worked with on the last albums? As I was misled much, I must be a little afraid... But, there are nevertheless no badly people of Blonde who find themselves on Dernieres Nouvelles...

Not on the level of the writing... Not, it is true. Françoise Hardy has not been able to write for me because she had her own new album to do and she devotes herself when writing lyrics, she prefers not to rush things. But that won't prevent me from asking her to write for me again, because I adore her way of writing.

Nevertheless she has found the time for El Salvador... Quid de Tikovoï (Lio, Buzy) and of Daho, present on Blonde? Étienne is imperceptible, I haven't seen him for quite a while... However that shouldn't be interpreted as infidelity, a rift, or though it is... But then, I really wanted to meet Jean Fauque.

Who is Eric Létinier who wrote the recent English lyrics? He is part of a brilliant group called "la Danse du Chien", who often sing in English, and who do not have a recording contract... I just naturally thought of him for the lyrics.

Did you ever think of releasing a Best Of? Some time ago they suggested that to me, however, I do not agree if the production of certain titles is not remade. On the other hand, I assume all the words and the musics.

You turned all the songs of the last album in your 52 minutes videofilm. Will that replace the mythical videoclips produced by Lydie Callier that she made for eight singles of the first three albums... Mythical, Lydie would like that. But those for the Blonde album were filmed by Elodie Lachaud (La Marquise, Amnésie) and Peter Greenaway made the Blonde video.

So there was a break with Lydie Callier in the middle of the Nineties? Not at all, not at all... But Lydie is very busy. She made great provisions to be a coach, to give courses... She just did a staging of a contemporary opera in Marseilles... She is busy and she has a good reason. Me, I never have a rift, not with my musicians, nor with my various other accomplices...

Do you look at your old clips? Ca arrives to me, because my images were done better than my records. I probably managed my image better than my productions, because I knew the field of the body better and I was at the base of writing the synopsis of my video clips. I am often very strong when I work in duplex, that was the case with Lydie Callier. It is perhaps because I never met the ideal partner that I never produced the album that I wanted.

Do you know that Madonna was very much inspired by your video clips? Yes, I know, especially since a big program of American TV, called Art Copy, had a feature on Madonna and me... Moreover, she always asks that my clips are delivered to her. She is very cunning, she is a remarkable businesswoman and she knows very well what she wants. But frankly, I don't think she get's inspired by me anymore, because we are very different now.

In 1997, you took on the cinema by acting in the film "Elles" with Miou-Miou, Marthe Keller, Marisa Berenson, Carmen Maura... Would you like to act again? Yes but not at any price. That film is not unforgettable, but I was very happy to meet these fabulous actresses with whom I became friends. With the continuation, I failed to play a part with François Berléant and Thierry de Perretti, but that was not done...

Many things are proposed to you? No, they proposed things to me, things for television and elsewhere, which I did not like. On the other hand, I wanted to make courts and means-measurings, but, because of problems of under they were not done. At this moment, the theatre turns me more to the turn... Perhaps I will succeed...

Have you decided on a single release from the last album? No, but in the situation in which I find myself facing the - " Trade " - I haven't been part of "the scene" for quite some time and all they want is this image of Ettienne being the single interesting thing, it is not serious. I have the fortune to be, since the preceding album, with a very understanding record label, and I get along rather well with the owner who seems to like me as I am... In any event, each time I wanted to make this trade like everyone, that did not go, it is thus better that I do what I feel like. There is no single because there are no singles on this album, or then there is full... The radio programmers will say that my songs are " too much this " for the morning hours and " not enough that " for the evening slots...

Is it not key to the future to have a minimum number of sales? Yes, it would be necessary for me to reach a certain sales figure... But I will work differently, I will make performances, rounds... Look at Kat'Onoma, you never hear them on the radio, you never see them on tv...

You could alternate like Françoise, who, after the hermetic album "Danger", recorded a more accessible album... I can't be compared to Françoise who made a number of splendid successes... Françoise is impossible to circumvent in the song, I am not. I was never discovered as an author or composer... And then, I arrived late on the scene, Françoise belongs to a group of people who started very young...

What do you think of songs today? It's more a step back than forwards. To resurrect the songs of our grandparents, it hits a sympathetic nerve but it doesn't advance creation. While certain countries develop the likes of Bjork, France prefers to resurrect Luis Mariano...

They say that you are friends with Vanessa Paradis... I haven't seen her for a long time, it was very gamine when one crossed... Today, she is a woman, a mother... We will certainly meet again one day...

You always see Sylvie Vartan for whom you danced... I do not see her regularly, but, when we cross paths, we are always happy to see each other...

You said that you see yourself as belonging to the same family as Rita and Zizi Jeanmaire? I said that? I respect Rita a lot, I know her well, but I do not think of us belonging in the same family. On the other hand, with regard to Zizi, apart from the link with Roland Petit, you could see an filiation, because Zizi sings, dances and she plays comedy. From reviewer to prima ballerina, Zizi did not have a very linear career either. I remember that, as a small girl, I was filled with wonder by "La Croqueuse De Diamant", just like I adored the American musicals that I saw at the Mac Mahon cinema with my father who was a fan. At all events, I must much, much, in Roland Petit before having to Mrs Carlson much.

Do you see yourself dancing for more than fifty years like Zizi has? I have a limitless admiration for her. It is a unique career. Mistinguett itself stopped well before!

Remarks collected on April 26, 2001.